This might get long, but read on if you want a synopsis of the misama of misinformation that is the relationship between press and administration. Dick's balls got way out in front of him again, and now the WH team has to spin like there is no tomorrow to manage what could have been the admission of a war crime by a chief executive.
I don't know what pains me more...The insanity involved in grown ups talking to each other like this, or the total powerlessness of all legal or political institutions to hold the administration accountable.
10/27 Press Briefing by Tony Snow:
Q Tony, your argument that Vice President Cheney didn't know that he was being asked about water boarding or wasn't being asked about water boarding and didn't intend to give an answer that suggested he was saying the United States uses water boarding, it doesn't follow when you read the transcript and it doesn't follow sort of common sense.Snow here shows some of his cards...No one brings up the issue of international law and just how serious such an admission would be legally and yet he intones:MR. SNOW: Well, I'll tell you what he --
Q How can you really make that argument?
MR. SNOW: I'll tell you what he said. He was asked the question, "You dunk somebody's head in the water to save a life, is it a no-brainer?" And also, if you read the rest of the answer, he also -- the Vice President, who earlier had also been asked about torture, he said, "We don't torture."
Let me give you the no-brainers here. No-brainer number one is, we don't torture. No-brainer number two: We don't break the law, our own or international law. No-brainer number three: The Vice President doesn't give away questioning techniques...The Vice President says he was talking in general terms about a questioning program that is legal to save American lives, and he was not referring to water boarding.He didn't say what he said. Besides, he would not have said it anyway.
Well, I've been reading these gaggles and briefings pretty regularly for the last six years, and I must admit that this was one occassion in which the press corps members were not willing to give the Administration the last word on anything.Q Then how can you say that he's not referring to water boarding, when it was very clear, when you look at the whole context, not only that specific question --
MR. SNOW: Does the word --
Q -- but the one before?
MR. SNOW: Did the word "water boarding" appear?
Q It came up in the context of talking about interrogation techniques and the entire debate that has been conducted in this country.
Alright, it is obvious to all thinking creatures that they've got no option left but deny deny deny. But still, how could he say it? What the hell could he be thinking of when he allows these words to pass over his lips?Q Let's back it up here for a second, because what we're saying is -- and I've got the transcript -- "Would you agree a dunk in water is a 'no-brainer' that can save lives?" Vice President: "It's a 'no-brainer' for me." Tony --
MR. SNOW: Read the rest of the answer.
Q What could "dunk in the water" refer to if not water boarding?
MR. SNOW: I'm just telling you -- I'm telling you the Vice President's position. I will let you draw your own conclusions, because you clearly have. He says he wasn't talking --
Q I haven't drawn any conclusions. I'm asking for an explanation about what "dunk in the water" could mean.
MR. SNOW: How about a dunk in the water?
But the press throws it right back in his face:
Q So, wait a minute, so "dunk in the water" means what, we have a pool now at Guantanamo, and they go swimming?Again we seen signs that the WH has tacitly or explicitly admitted that IF Dick HAD been talking about water-boarding as a tactic we use, THEN he'd be fucked.MR. SNOW: Are you doing stand up?
...
MR. SNOW: I'm telling you what the Vice President says. I can't go any further, and I'm not going to engage in what-could-he-mean because he said what he meant. He said -- he said he wasn't talking about water boarding.
Q One follow on this, because what you said in the morning was, "You think Dick Cheney is going to slip up on something like this?" Is it possible that he's not slipping up at all --
MR. SNOW: No.
Q -- but that he's winking to the base and saying --
MR. SNOW: No.
Q -- "of course we water board, and of course we'll do anything we need to to get the information because he knows that what they do --
MR. SNOW: I think you just won the cynical question of the year award. No, I don't.
Q How is that cynical?
Q No, no, no. There are more.MR. SNOW: Jim, you can bang away as much as you want. I'm telling you what the Vice President's -- I talked to Lea Anne about it. She says no, he wasn't referring to water boarding; he was referring to using a program of questioning -- not talking about water boarding.
Let me put it this way. You got Dick Cheney, who had been head of an intelligence committee. He's been the Secretary of Defense. He's been the Vice President. He's not a guy who slips up, and he's also not a guy who does winks and nods about things that involve matters that you don't talk about for political reasons. Sorry.
But this time they fire back:
Q Why did the Vice President then, when the inference was clearly there from the questioner, who more than once referred to a dunk in the water --MR. SNOW: I believe that his office is --
Q Let me finish. He, in the questioning, talked about how his radio listeners believe that this is a useful tool. "If it takes dunking someone in order to save lives, isn't it a silly debate to even be questioning that?" The Vice President says, "I do agree," later says, "That's been a very important tool that we've been able to secure the nation" -- referring to Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.
If the Vice President is so careful, why did he allow himself to answer a question in which "dunking in the water" was a part of that question?
MR. SNOW: The answer -- look, he was answering a question. And also as you know, he went on to talk about torture. Look, I've said what I'm going to say on it. I can't -- I really -- what you're asking me to do is to deconstruct something. I've asked what he meant. I've told you what he said he meant. I can't go any further than that, so you can ask all the whys and wherefores.
Did you catch that? Derrida's revenge?
And the hits keep on coming...
Q He was asked about a technique, and he responded to a technique, and said that he agreed --MR. SNOW: No, he was not asked -- he was not asked, no.
Q Informally, he did.
MR. SNOW: No, informally doesn't work.
Q It does in the context of a radio interview --
Q You're quibbling over semantics, to borrow your phrase. You're quibbling over semantics.
MR. SNOW: I know. But, no, I think -- I actually think --
Q He's in a conversation with a radio audience to speak to the American people.
MR. SNOW: I understand all that.
Q It doesn't have to be legally precise. The Vice President understood what the questioner was asking.
MR. SNOW: I'm telling you -- and I will tell you once again -- the Vice President says that he refers to the fact that when you're questioning people, you don't torture. You obey the law, and you protect the American people. We're not going to go any further.
Q Tony, is it not possible that the two are not mutually exclusive? In other words, that the Vice President does not construe water boarding as torture, and therefore, to him --
MR. SNOW: No, no, no, no --
Q -- when he says "dunk in the water," that's a serious question. You can't just sort of beg off and say, I'm sorry, I'm not going to deconstruct it.
MR. SNOW: No, but, Jennifer -- Jennifer, you've listened -- there have been statements out of that office for two consecutive days that say they don't talk about water boarding, they don't talk about torture, they don't condone torture. They're not going to talk about techniques.
Q All we're asking is, what's a "dunk in the water"?
Q He agrees with it. We want to know what that means.
MR. SNOW: All right.
Q If he agrees with a "dunk in the water," then --
I guess grown ups do occassionally get tired of having to have discussions such as these. Exhibit A:
Q To say that Vice President Cheney doesn't make mistakes like this, he did go up and curse a senator to his face on the Senate floor, and accidentally shot his friend, so he's not perfect. (Laughter.)Here comes Helen Thomas. Tony Snow's smart, though. He knows who she is and where she's coming from. She's one of "You Guys".
Q Is the emphasis on "we don't torture" when we send captives to notorious places that do torture? Does that absolve you?I think Snow's assignment was to keep saying "VP meant dunk in water, like he said." And to say absolutely nothing more than this. Oops. Now watch him try to close THIS door. Exhibit BMR. SNOW: No, it's -- as we've said many times, when we move people to another place, we have to have assurances that there will be no torture, and the treatment will be in accordance with international law.
Q Why do you send them there? Why? Why don't you keep them in your own captivity?
MR. SNOW: Well, wait a minute, I thought you guys wanted to close off Guantanamo. The only way you do that -- we quite often try to repatriate people to places --
Exhibit CQ I think the larger issue is credibility -- yours and the White House's. We're talking both in this instance and yesterday about very clear -- about specific language where you refute the semantic differences within the language and refuse to acknowledge what's very clear.
MR. SNOW: No, I can understand that people will look at this and draw the conclusions that you're trying to draw, as for yesterday.
I understand this. We will try to deal with it. I think you guys are -- maybe it's the end of the week. You're getting whipped into a frenzy.
Q Do you have contempt for the American people, do you think they don't understand?MR. SNOW: No, what I'm saying -- no, I think it is because you guys know Dick Cheney. You know the issue. I will go back and I will try to find some language for you.
Q We don't know him.
Q That's a logical fallacy.
Q Will he disavow dunking people in water as a part of the robust interrogation --
Q Clarify something. A couple seconds ago, you said, "I can understand why people look at this and draw this conclusion."MR. SNOW: Well, because you're going to talk about dunks in the water, and I know people say, "oh, that must mean water boarding." I mean I understand that you'd draw that, so we'll get into it.
Q Wouldn't you draw that conclusion if you were reading this?
MR. SNOW: No, I wouldn't because I know the Vice President, and I know the way people think in the White House.
Ah, well, that settles it then.
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